In 2014 I had the chance to be personal assistant of Ivry for the Festival at Music Academy in Katowice (Poland). I spent with him few days – starting the day with making his shoe lances, finding his casket, keeping his superb violin, eating together and talking.
The beginning wasn’t easy. He was rather moody and made impression that was not listening to me at all. However, after one day together, I realised that he was memorising all things I have told him. After two days we became good buddies (our friendship included even marriage proposal at the end – „Ania, would you marry me?” – of course as a joke;).
He loved to be recorded and photographed, he was waking up very late. Loved fish soup accompanied by bread with a thick slice of butter. His mood was changing all the time.
His duty was to give masterclasses and to play one concert (!).
In the meantime we were just hanging at the main hall of Academy.
I really wanted to learn from him, but not especially about the violin – about his lessons of life.
He was reluctant to talk about music, although he told me once about his beginnings with violin:
„It wasn’t a matter of choice. That wasn’t a flashy beginning.
Maybe the thing that I hadn’t chose made me to be closer now.
Difficult beginning sometimes is better than the love from the first sight”
I got really inspired by his workshop. As a violinist I should have been focused on some „violinists tips” but I couldn’t resist the impression that he gave us a masterclass about life. He was talking about playing – but in the fact it was all about the Art of living.
„When you’re playing forget that you were practicing. You’re in the moment!”
„If you will know how to enjoy pleasure – you will know the timing in music.”
„We are what we eat. We play what we are. What do we do with what we are?”
„Everything has to move. The bike, when is not moving is falling.”
„Life can take whole life and it can take 1 sec to live the life. Little thing can change everything.”
„Theme from 5th symphony by Beethoven. the piece of paper. Picasso. the masterpiece from scratches.”
„While playing instrument you need to be constantly surprised. The music is just happening.”
„The greatest drug is the air at the top of the mountain. You are entering the stage and you need to describe it. We don’t practice to show off. Going on stage you go for a meeting with the people – you have smoothing to tell.”
„To be free is very strong rigor. Freedom is not chaos, is difficult thing. Sibelius is about fear of being free. „
„Don’t be afraid to let it down. Emotions are not asking for permission. Love is not polite. Music is not polite.”
„Forte is not shouting. To play never means that we’re playing.”
„Laziness is nowadays „being busy”, which doesn’t mean anything – it’s covering your real activity.”
At the day of his concert he got nervous. He had bad humour and was shouting on me all the day. Just before going on stage he wanted sandwich and shouted: „Ania, where is my sandwich ?!” What’s wrong with you?! At the same time he was answering phone calls on the backstage just before playing.
When the day came to the end, I was accompanying him to the room. In the elevator he looked at me with the sight of the little boy and asked me gently: „Ania, do you still love me?”
I was keeping asking him what the life thought him. He was pretending that he is not hearing, but one day during the lunch, he started to talk.
„Never do what you think you should do. Do what you really want. And one more thing I can tell you: even if you think you know what you want – it will come but always in a different way you’ve expected.”
Sometimes he was sitting quietly and a bit grumpy… then suddenly saying something „in the air”.
„Ivry Gitlis.. Who is Ivry Gitlis?… Ah, it used to be a good violinist, but who is he now?”
When we were at the patio in the Academy, we heard students practicing. „And they are all here to study violin? What for? Idiots.”
His big dream was to go to Auschwitz one more time.
„I was here before but this time is the last one.” And we have managed.
He really wanted to play with one double bass player on the track of Auschwitz. The security didn’t let the double bass to come in, but agreed for Ivry’s violin.
When we were coming back he told me: „You see, this is what I told you before – you will get the thing you want always in a different way you have thought.”
The most moving situation I experienced with him was the one, when he grabbed his violin and played lullaby improvisation sitting at the end of the train track in Auschwitz. We were in 4 people: Ivry, prof. Krzeszowiec, bassist and the photographer. When I started to film it – I felt like a thief- stealing the moment, but he was happy to have the moment recorded.
On the last day, when I came to his room to make his shoe lances, he touched my nose playfully. „Anna, you are writing poetry, but I don’t feel you are the poetry. You need to be what you do from the bottom to the top.”
All day long we had with Ivry good humours and the same melody on mind – the music from Borodin which were changed into the song: „Take my hand, I’m a stranger in paradise”. We were singing it all the time. Just before going with him to the airport, we were at one table with Ivry, prof. Krzeszowiec and my friend. He asked us to grab our hands, close the eyes and enjoy being in silence. That was his way to say good-bye.
One year after I was searching for the contact with him – as he invited me for coffee at Caffe de Flores in Paris. I called him – of course he answered (he was always answering the calls).
„Ania? Which Ania? Who are you?”
I’m the one you met in Poland. Violinist.
I can’t see you!! Do you have facetime? I need to see you.
(At that time I didn’t know what FaceTime is and he new! After 90 years of living! Finally I managed to call him that way)
In conversation with Evan Rothstein – Deputy Head of String Department at Guidhall School of Music and Drama in London and my true and very wise friend.
I am very happy to be able to share with you the conversation we had during the lockdown. After leaving his school we stayed in contact, exchanging ideas, thoughts and inspirations. Inviting him for a conversation on this blog was for me very natural. The initial idea were to keep it more as an interview but quickly appeared that following natural flow of thoughts is much more natural for both of us. As we weren’t very much time restricted;) we went to many different angles of subjects, that is why I decided to organise topics to put the content more clear for you to receive.
Prologue.
It’s no use to be right. You must somehow work convincingly together. That’s the bottom line.
Thinking society. Referring to the books written by Jared Diamond and Harari.
Trying to understand where the differences come from is essential. We tend to look at superficial evidence when we are talking about differences. Going deeper is very stimulating.
How your lockdown looks like? How students of GSMD are studying these days?
After all those years, are you able to predict the future career of some students?
The main thing I have learnt is that you have to be extremely humble in thinking that you you know where somebody is going , who they will become.
What counts is not how you do here, but what counts is to find the place for what you want to do.
Did you get any feedback from your students about the lockdown time?
(Also about online teaching.)
Instead of certain results you need to focus on activity. Somehow activity became more important than obtaining certain result.
About changing perspective during pandemic and the rule of thumb.
We need to reframe our short-term objectives, like concert or project, but theres is no reason to change long-term ones.
Epilogue.
……
Books mentioned by Evan in the conversation:
Jared Diamond – Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies.
Jared Diamond – Collapse
Jared Diamond – The World Until Yesterday
Yuval Noah Harari – Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind
…..
Evan Rothstein studied at the Eastman School, the Yale School of Music and the Jacobs School of Music at Indiana University in Bloomington. There he received his Doctor of Music in violin performance with a dissertation devoted to the music of Ives under the direction of noted Ives scholar J. Peter Burkholder. His violin professors included Nelli Shkolnikova, James Buswell and Stanley Ritchie (baroque repertoire), and in chamber music he worked with members of the Cleveland, Tokyo, Julliard, Fine Arts, and Borodin Quartets. He also studied violin pedagogy with Mimi Zweig and worked as an assistant in her Young Violinists program. In 1989 he moved to Paris, where he studied with Veda Reynolds as a Harriet Hale Woolley Fellow of the Fondation des Etats-Unis. He then performed in recitals and as chamber musician throughout Europe, including six years as a member of I Solisti del Festival at the Festival dei due mondi in Spoleto.
Pedagogy consultant to the ProQuartet Centre européen de musique de chambre (2004-2010), he was re-elected unanimously to a second three-year term as Chairman of the European Chamber Music Teachers’ Association in 2012; he writes a bimonthly column on chamber music teaching for Ensemble Magazine. He has also taught violin since 1992 in various conservatories in the Paris region and in workshops for both children and adult amateurs. Since 1997 he teaches chamber music at the Summer String Academy at Indiana University in Bloomington.
Mr Rothstein also holds graduate degrees in musicology from the University of Paris 8 – Saint Denis, where he focused on the experimental music-theatre of Georges Aperghis under the direction of Jean-Paul Olive. He later joined the musicology faculty, and from 2001 to 2012 taught both analysis and history of music. He has contributed chapters and texts to a variety of publications, writing not only about the music of Ives and Aperghis, but more generally about music and society, from the minimalism of Steve Reich to Broadway musicals. In recent years he has worked with Olive Music, the Théâtre de Châtelet and the Cité de la musique, producing concert and CD program notes, written and video interviews, and participating in professional development round tables and the Zoom pre-concert lecture series.
He has lectured in residencies including both conferences and interactive performance workshops internationally, and has served in the juries for a number of chamber music competitions across Europe.
With Natasha Hall about liberating yourself from the outside pressure, finding your home inside you, collaborating with the fear, about music and humanity .
I have met Natasha thanks to one of our common friend. She used to live in London a while before I came there. She used to play for a few years with English Chamber Orchestra and many others.
Recently, she changed her path and has moved back to Canada (a time before the COVID global lockdown). She decided to live more conscientious, with time for yoga and nature. Not an easy decision in the times of careers prioritised world. Let me share our incredibly inspiring conversation.
Me: I am fascinating by decision making process and how people deal with them. How decision making looks like in your life?
Musicians are kind of acknowledgers of the heart and the communicators of the heart.
Music is a feeling expressed in sound.
Natasha Hall began her studies in British Columbia with Wendy Herbison, subsequently learning from William van der Sloot (Mount Royal University, Calgary AB), Andres Cardenes (Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh PA), Patinka Kopec (Manhattan School of Music, New York NY), Pinchas Zukerman (Ottawa ON), Rodney Friend (London UK) and Roman Simovic (London UK). Natasha has performed as soloist, chamber and orchestral musician in North America, Europe and Asia. As orchestral musician, she performs regularly with the English Chamber and Royal Philharmonic Orchestras. Natasha has appeared as soloist with the Calgary Civic Symphony, Symphony of the Kootenays, Carnegie Mellon University Baroque Ensemble and Selkirk Youth Orchestra.
Natasha has received numerous awards for her violin performances and is a winner of the Calgary Concerto and Morningside Music Bridge Chamber Music Competitions. She has collaborated in performance with artists such as Rohan de Silva and Andres Cardenes and has appeared on CBC TV, „The Nature of Things”, with David Suzuki. Her interest in humanitarian work has led her to raise over $25,000 through solo benefit performances for charities in Canada, the United States, Georgia and Russia.
Charlotte Hamilton is one of the most inspiring person I have ever met. She was working as a fundraiser for European Union Youth Orchestra when I was a member of the orchestra. We became friends and until now we are supporting each other and exchange ideas.
She was working for the most vibrant companies and never felt enough of curiosity and self development. Her openness to changes brought her to the point where she is now: after studying Positive Psychology at UEL, she became the founder of the couching platform for teenage girls Betterness Manifesto (link at the bottom of this page) and Associate Dean at Nova School of Business & Economics in Portugal.
„You have to be ok that you don’t have control what’s coming next. Change is inevitable.”
About being in the process, self love and acceptance for changes with Charlotte Hamilton.
Conversation with Charlotte Hamilton
Here you can visit Charlotte’s website and see what she is dedicated to these days
With Liya Petrova about sensitivity in decision making, food, being strong against expectations, about competitions and being ready for challenges.
fot. Marco Borggreve
It was so nice to meet again with Liya Petrova – great violinist and person with who I had a pleasure to play chamber music at Bel Air Festival in 2018. Her vital energy in playing always impress me. This time – meeting on Skype.
fot. Dimitri Scapolan
Anna: How are you?
Liya: It’s a strange time. I discovered how much I was connected with my life before lockdown. I miss the contrasts – new places , meeting different people. Of course there are people who are sick now, who lost their loved ones. I am not in the position to complain but at the same time it is difficult for everyone. Especially for freelance musicians, for culture.
A: What has changed for you apart from obvious things? Did your attitude to violin has changed? I am asking because it was like that for me.
L: Yes? How did it changed for you?
A: My relationship with violin went through many different stages. At the beginning of lockdown I coudn’t play. For a short time my violin became symbol of what I’ve just lost. Then, I started to have more intimate relation with them. Enjoying with acceptance that there are just two of us, without public that we can share moments with.
L: For me, at the beginning I was enjoying doing some other stuff. I was happy to read, to cook, without feeling to rush to anything. Ok – now I am cooking and I can do it for 4 hours! I also took time to learn some new music. I also focused on hope for playing some concerts soon.
A: I was watching episodes of your facebook series „Humans&Music” when you play together with some former musicians or people who are playing instruments just as a hobby. What a great idea!
L: It’s so crazy to see people who love music and are so passionate about it, who are not treating it as a profession or anything that can bring them nothing else than pleasure. It’s a real passion.
A: You are right. I came from musical family and making music for me is often a daily activity, so natural that I forget how much joy can bring to the others, that it is so precious and unique. Becoming professional musician came to me so natural that when I was 16 I started to ask myself if it is really my choice. I know your family is also musical. How it was with you?
L: My mother had musical education, my father not. She didn’t want me to be a musician. I needed to insist a lot. At the beginning I had some violin lessons with my uncle in secret! At the other hand, I somehow understood her. I am from Bulgaria. Especially in that period of time, 1995 it wasn’t really a great idea to be musician if you wanted to have let’s say successful life. I have thousands of friends who told me that their parents-musicians encouraged them to play. For me it was the opposite. Did you think if you weren’t a musician who would you be?
A: I was thinking about it many times. I even started the second faculty at the University which was Italian Language. I was considering myself as a translator. I love words and communication with people. I stopped it as I couldn’t manage to make both things to the fullest but now I am using italian quite often. Especially when I am travelling to play in Italy.
You are also a big traveller. You were changing places of living so many times. Have you ever found it difficult?
L: I started travelling when I was 10 or 11, every month to Germany to have lessons. I never linked myself to places in order to be happy. I know many people use to say „I’m so happy in Berlin. It’s my city. I couldn’t be happier somewhere else.” Of course I have preferences, talking about Berlin, it’s one of my favourite place for living. However, I realised that feeling well with yourself makes it work anywhere. I was living in Brussel, studying there, I was in between Paris and Berlin, now is Paris…
A: Have you ever had a feeling that you need to know where to come back?
L: Now I have my home in Paris. I have my staff here. Before it was Berlin. Sometimes I missed the feeling of going back home, but quickly realised I don’t need this for my inner balance. Until now I never spent 2 months without travelling. What about you? Where is home for you?
A: I posed this question to myself a few years ago. I wanted to answer it so I went for a tour which took me in total 6 months. I went with one orchestra across the Germany and Switzerland. I needed to be on the way without attachment to any of the places. When after month of different cities and hotels almost each day, I started to accept the constant change, I noticed that the place that I can’t leave, cannot abandon is myself. In the time of lockdown I don’t live at my usual place, I am at my parents. Last time when I was here for so long it was 12 years ago, when I was teenager, completely different person. Even if we are now caught in place which is not ours, it’s a good time to build the home inside. The slogans „Restez chez vous”, „Stay at home” etc. it is also motivation to be in your mind, to stay, to finally not run away through some excessive work. In terms of home it is also physical. When I was on tour, each time when I felt I’m getting rid of travelling, I was throwing away my things from the suitcase and putting them back again🙂
L: I think I understand what you mean. In Berlin I’ve changed my flat so many times. Home was often linked with my personal staff: clothes, books, CDs even more than the flat itself. When I was unpacking them in the new place it already felt right somehow. Recently it is more about the people – where you are with your loved ones.
A: I would like to change subject to competitions. I saw in your CV so many of them. I am personally not a big fan of them, especially in art. However I can see the point of them as an opportunity to challange yourself, to be responsible for a tiny moment to give all what you can. This can be very much motivating. I was wondering what do you think and feel while going on the stage during the competition. You have only one moment. What is your attitude?
L: My first competition I had when I was 7 years old so I went through many stages of my attitude to it. I can say about my recent ones. Definitely today I can say that my way is to treat it more like a concert. You have the resposibility for how you play but at the end you don’t have responsibility for the results of competition. What you can do is doing your best – but it is like with everything, no matter of the context. For sure I’m never focusing that this is a competition, that there is a jury that will judge me. I’m focusing on music, what is the mood I need to enter to be in the music. I’m concentrating on the things I can do not on those beyond my control. You can play great and you don’t pass to 2nd round, sometimes you have feeling that wasn’t good but you were accepted. The art is like that – is not objective, but it’s not the minus for me, I think it is its charm. You can’t calculate it – I would say you are more free. When I was a kid there were only few big competitions and their winners had usually very strong personalities like for example Repin. Now it has changed a bit. Some of them are having a lots of concerts but some of them disappear. I don’t really know what’s the factor of it.
A: Maybe inside they don’t feel „ready”? Many of my friends are having difficulties to consider themselves as a„ready to go” artists. Many of them stucked in position of being ashamed that they are not perfect.
L: I wouldn’t go out from my comfort zone if I would think: there is Oistrakh before me so what would I do better? (haha) Of course I understand that you would like to be perfect and you have respect to the music that has been performed for hundreds of years. I was actually thinking about it recently when I was recording Beethoven sonatas. Who needs my interpretation? There are so many good violinists. If you will stay with this thinking there is basically nothing you can do. We need a courage.
A: Coming back to this „being ready” attitude. It’s the same with life. We think: one day I will live the life I like, one day I will be ready to be happy, to own my story. Why not now?
L: I totally agree. Also leaving staff for later. I started to think: if I want something I’m starting doing it right now. You learn this with time.
A: Do you have any struggle with decision making? How do you feel that your decision is right?
L: Expectations is important point here. As a musicians we are all the time observed – that is our job to play for the audience, standing in front of them. I learnt a lot about this matter in last years. My life has changed a lot and I was struggling with people’s expectations. They have strong opinions if something is right or wrong then you might feel bad. It can also bring you to the point where you are quite unhappy. People have their point of view. I’m not talking about being judgmental – it is normal – we all have our opinions. The bad point of this is when somebody want to make others act according to what they feel is right. There will be always someone around that has an idea how your life should look like, even with good intentions with it. Once I got rid of it I felt much calmer, more centered. You can live your life. It is difficult to be like that in our nowadays society – with instagram, facebook, all that pictures. You feel you have to eat what they approve, wear clothes which have approval.
A: We kind of started to belong to eyes that watch us.
L: We also don’t see staff which are bad or mistaken. We see only the success.
A: Also, the process of achieving them is also invisible. We identify happiness with achievements that seemed to be approached so easily. Coming back to decision making. That what helped me a lot recently – maybe it will sound pathetic but it is very simple – is thinking that I will die one day. We are born alone and we will die one day with just the life we had.
L: Everyone has different priorities. For me it’s a mixture of factors. What I was learning about it is to be more sensitive to myself. Our instincts, experience can tell us without knowing. I don’t think it’s very mystical, it is just a physics. This collection of experiences, we call it a gut feeling, but there is a lot behind. So I try to respect this voice in me but also using brain through questions about my priorities. If I’m going to the direction I want.
A: Being sensitive to your instinct has a lot with eating. If we feed ourselves with junk food, we start to loose the taste. Sensitivity to what’s is good.
L: It’s funny we talk about it. I spent 2 months in the kitchen which is not usual for me. I found a small shop at the corner with organic veggies. I ate a lot of quality products. Yesterday we wanted to have a change and we thought about burgers. We went to nice restaurant and we took with us two of them. After these time eating our own, light meals I felt so sick and disappointed. Before lockdown it was a normal food for me.
A:True.
I would like to talk now about the people who sharpen your sensibility, who have changed your way of thinking.
L: For sure my parents that I was always close to. My brother who is the men not only that I love but also I respect and admire. I keep calling him when it’s hard or when I’m happy. He is there for me. My teachers. I always had quite close connection with them. Violin is a tool who opens the door to your inner world. For me it was never about how to hold the bow only. Going to deeper subjects it seems to me necessary. I also learn a lot from people I’m sharing the stage with. They are giving such an energy! This moment is all about it. Giving all you have it’s worth the whole path we go. Having different priorities in that time, like what people think about me, how do I look like is such a pity. Going on stage with thousands of people at the audience- it can be stressful and provokes us to protect ourselves. Sometimes you want to hide – my reaction is opposite: I want to be active, to kind of „attack” but in the good sense…
I just realise I went away from your question. haha
A:No worries! I loved your digression!
L: Coming back. For sure I am learning from my friends. Also my partner Philippe who has changed a lot of my visions about certain things in life. We talk a lot. From another angle: books! For example Victor Frankl. Dostojewski. It shapes your way of thinking.
This was the phrase which Etienne Abelin told me once and it has stucked in my head. I thought: it’s quite obvious, why then I accuse „so called life” too many times for choosing for me? Being in charged of your own path has its cost but in the end I am the one who will ask myself: what have you done with your dreams?
I met Etienne during the project Grazie Claudio at the beginning of 2019, thanks to invitation of EUYO. The concert was organised by daughter of Claudio Abbado – Alessandra. Back in the days Etienne was one of those musicians chosen by maestro to be in his Orchestra Mozart. This time we played together conducted by Ezio Bosso. Unforgettable time.
Etienne is a vibrant spirit. He is not only innovative violinist, searching for unique combinations between jazz, baroque or club music, but also versatile conductor, just after conducting class in USA. He is Co-Founder of the Sistema Europe Youth Orchestra, Co-Artistic director of the Classical Beat Festival (Germany), Co-Artistic director of the Apples&Olives Indie Classical Festival (Switzerland), and Co-Founder of digital music technology and education Start-Up Music:Eyes – See What You Hear. He’s a double time TEDx speaker/performer and was a musical collaborator of Claudio Abbado for many years as a founding member of the Lucerne Festival Orchestra.
About what’s next in music, how the process of going his own path looked like, how is to be free within the compromises. Have a listen!
on the phone with Etienne Abelin
For those interested in digital application co-created by Etienne – here is the link.
That was one of my questions to Roberto Gonzáles Monjas, one of the most vibrant musician of young generation. He used to be the concertmaster of a few orchestras among others Orchestra dell’Accademia Nazionale di Santa Cecilia. Now he is Chief Conductor and Artistic Advisor of Dalasinfoniettan.
We have met at Guildhall School of Music and Drama while playing together Verklärte Nacht by Schönberg. From the very first rehearsal I was impressed by his approach to music. As he said: don’t play beautifully – play meaningfully.
After years I called him to exchange our thoughts: about fear of empty spaces, listening, finding your own voice.
on the phone with Roberto Gonzáles-Monjas
„No matter how do you think about the phrase, there is always a different way to see it. It’s not about winning and loosing when it comes to debating it is ending up enriched more than you were before.„
About life, fear, trust and power of the music with Ezio Bosso.
It’s before midday. Ezio is sitting at the Bar Teatro close to the theatre in Gualtieri. Few people are having espresso. Some workers are mowing the lawn. The muffled sound of trumpet is getting out from one of the windows. From time to time Ezio-s dog called Ragu’ is running between the tables. It is hard to me to start – so many things to talk about. Each time I play with him I am making notes on the margin of my part. I noted once his comparison: music score is a map.
One of my favourite phrase by philosopher Korzybski is: „The map is not the territory.” In the process which leads towards music making we need to know the map but then we have to be in the territory. How this „crossing the line” looks like? How to get from the map to the territory?
Our map are the scores, but as musicians we don’t have to complete the map. The map is the score. For me is rather to BE the map. Be part of the map. Belong to the map. Start from there and then you can open your eyes. One of the point , when the map was written it wasn’t from point A to B. We use the map to go faster: A to B. I prefer the aborigine one. They indicate where is the danger, the water. They use songs and the colours. Music is similar. Sadly, we usually use the map just to watch, to arrive in the line of two points. We don’t use the map as a help to go deeper.
You lead the tv programme on RAI3 „Che storia é la musica” [what a story is a music]. Now I would like to ask you „Quale musica è la tua storia?” [which music is your story]. I am now at stage of writing the book which is entitled „Urklang”. In german that means primeval sound: UR-KLANG. What is your sound or maybe it is a silence? Do we have our own melody we need to find? Kind of destiny?
Everything is connected. Nietzsche said: „Without music, life would be a mistake”. It is a beautiful sentence. Many times we use the sentences of great men just to wave around , the point is that music without life is really a mistake. In my case all my life is about the music, but it is true that is also about silence. When I was a kid I was really silent. My parents were worrying because I wasn’t speaking. I started to speak around 3 -4, the words but not the real words. I had my own vocabulary. Of course that was a social issue, not normal. When I was 6 I didn’t like to speak, I needed to force myself to do it. It was like an act – it wasn’t real. I loved to stay silent. Meantime the music helped me not to be too weird. Although I always listened to everything separately. I wasn’t able to put this puzzle together. It was a real puzzle. I could listen 12 violins but each one of them separately. …..
Like eating the salads feeling each particular ingredients?
Yes. You can’t have a real sensation of the whole.That was really tough.
In my book everyone act accordingly to the soundtrack they have in the back of the head. They simply feel good following some melodies. I am asking about the destiny. Do we have to find our path-soundtrack which already exists or we can create it?
There is one point that is truth, the fact as our first memory is the sound – so we are defined by the sound. The music is our identity. Our identity is based on the easiest definition while we are listening. The period of our lives are signed by sort of soundtracks, like the rebellious, teenagers time. All this musical experience define even our being. Especially musicians forget – we belong to music. We don’t owe the music. Belonging is much more in our DNA. The word belonging – especially in english- has it’s good definition. It doesn’t mean to be owned by but to be the part of. If you belong to the family – you are the part of it, you participate in the wellness, sadness, joy, solving the problems. In a way much more difficult. It is scary. There is always deep introspection, that not everyone want to go through. Also, in life, if you think in survival way – you need to be sure about something. Music is never like that. There is not just the one, right way. The music is changing, depends on the people, space, body. It is a continuous grow, continuous discover. There are all the time same notes, are static for ages, but they can change the things in us.
Some of the musicians are trying to recreate the recordings. It is a bit like taking the photo of the moment and then trying to recreate atmosphere by putting the people in the same positions.
Imagine, that was one of the issue on the performing with the labels. Now everything is perfect on CD. Photoshoped. Boring. That is our issue now – Beethoven not too loud, with no risk. Meanwhile, people feel connected to things they belong to.
I have also another question. How to get the trust to yourself. You said you were ok with your inner silence as a child. How to get this trust?
Don’t trust yourself. This is the fun part. You trust what you feel, you trust your eyes, trust what you’ve learnt. Exploring is the only way to trust. You can trust your movement, you can’t trust your position. When you trust yourself – this is the end. Then you become a monolite. Imagine that even the trees trust other trees, they are in the community. They learn from each other, sacrifice sometimes. They have their own psychology. When you start to trust yourself – that means you stopped listening, even to yourself.
When I try to listen to myself I feel fears sometimes, then I don’t know if I mistake fear with being warned by my gut, by my intuition.
For me there are several types of fears. Justified, unjustified. One of the worst fear you can feel is about the loneliness. When you feel you are not understood. There are also fears that are useful. Another one is the fear of fear, which protects you from being out of the comfort zone. The comfort zone it’s the end of the music. Imagine, when you play as a kid, you became a part of first community, you have no stress, you are taking a risk. Then you fall, experiment. You are learning the fear, but the old feeling is there. When you play all the core is there. Imagination. Music is a confrontation with your fears, with your sadness, with what you miss. Can relaborate things in you.
Do you know the books of Kundera? In one of them he said that the book can’t give an answer – it has to always shows possibilities of the life.
We have one of the most powerful tool in our hand. There is something we don’t really realise. We are talking only about harmony, instruments, but we never talk about the tools: violin is a tool, music is a tool. They allow you to go over you, to see yourself from another perspective. The power of the art is to allow you to participate in life, to comprehend. It is a much better word that under-stand (standing under). As a musicians we need to work harder that the others. If you chose this path you have to recognise all your banks. And there is never enough.
It so difficult to understand this. We are put into feeling that you need to complete something, achieve the steps.
One of the problem of the post-modern society is the check list. The things you need to do before die. Then you do and you feel unsatisfaction because it’s a wrong way. There will be always a thing you didn’t do, didn’t tell. There is obsession to achieve something. Be the part of your life. When you really love someone you say I belong to you. You don’t say I respect you. When you belong to someone you respect – it is natural. This is not something you can achieve. The one you need to respect is you. Not to be trusted by yourself but respected. Your fragility, weakness…
How you can express this respect?
By work. It is a great word. In italian „lavorare” it is from latin labor and it is also thinking.
The last question. What is for you the difference between hearing and listening?
Listening of course it is a word much more important. Hearing it is just the fact. Listening means you noticed. In italian is ascoltare and sentire. First you need to hear the sound and then to listen to. If you don’t have the tool, the access to hear you can’t listen. You need a help to listen. Listening is an evocation.
Putting the frame into something which already exist.
Another thing – we don’t listen only with ears, we listen with the eyes as well. That is why I am pushing so much to open them while playing. When we have the eyes on the part we are loosing a lot! Beethoven said: listen to the body. You need to play all your body. Listen with your eyes, your hands, your feelings. You don’t have to ask someone to listen. It is you that recognise somebody that added something different. For me listening is looking for help.
About going against the tide, success and failure, being freelance violinist with EUYO concertmaster, violinist – Emily Davis.
#peopleofeuyo
The last day of EUYO tour. I am sitting in the plane Bucharest – Warsaw with Emily, our concertmaster. For both of us it was the last tour as a full members. Happily we found a moment to make longer conversation to line up together the past, today and the future.
You were in EUYO in tutti and then you ended up as a concertmaster. How your perspective have changed? I mean, your new role demands different abilities. Did the fact you were in tutti helped you in being a leader?
Yes, definitely. I really don’t think you could be a leader if you’ve never experienced being in the back of the section. Everyone always says: it’s the hardest to be in the back of the section, a part of the technical difficulties that you have back there it is also a mental part of it as well. You play a different role, you are a different member of the team so you need to be appreciated in a different way. I think it is very easy to leader to seat there and play the violin very well and be nice to the section but not actually understand what they are all doing, what are their efforts. Often nice bits are not heard at all. I’ve had leaders who talked down to the back to the section, because they felt that they cannot something. They really have to be lifted up. EUYO is the orchestra, where I experienced every angle. I think that any member of the violin section in EUYO should feel that could be the leader as well, so you can inspire to do that, of course not everyone wants that, but that you can have the journey that I had. This is very special thing about EUYO that you can grow up within.
The members of EUYO are changing. How is it possible that the orchestra keeps the same spirit through the years?
It stays with the people who were there before and stayed, it is in the staff, the places we had residences. The spirit is so instinctive I think.
People in EUYO have different personalities. Also there are some introverts. This orchestra is famous of its energy and expression. How they can find themselves in this environment? Is extrovert way of playing given to them or discovered inside them?
I have observed that from many people who were coming here for the first time that they were thought how to express more. People have said to me: I’ve never have this and it’s not something I was pushed to it. Sometimes you need a little push though… Actually I would love to know how they feel about it. Sometimes I am so touched when I see someone raised ..
How to be both: best friend and the boss? How to get respect from the orchestra who is many times more experienced than you are?
I can’t fake anything. I can’t pretend to be „tough”. I can’t pretend to be nice either. I think as soon as you are putting a boss face one purpose is gonna collapse. I like respect, I like rehearsals to be disciplined and I am not afraid to make that known. But I also like to have a good time and outside of the rehearsals I want to have a drink and be like everyone else. You need to separate it. The other thing is, everyone have to feel as it’s a part of the team and you have to bring them in. Like when you are tunning. This is my small secret. When I am tunning the orchestra I always try to make an eye contact with everyone across the room. When they see that you see them it is already a good start. Of course, there are also moments when you can’t be everyones friend. For me it’s always the biggest issue how to deal with the management more than with players. How to tell them that I’m not happy with certain things and be taken seriously.
Good musician doesn’t mean always good chamber music partner. What makes a difference?
Compromise and listening. You have to be a bit stubborn but if you are too much – I don’t want make music with you [laugh]. Also it is to do with contribution. Everyone has to share opinion even if is totally different. Some people don’t like to be involved in chamber music, because they don’t have the patience to share. Luckily they are not too many.
Music and life are very much alike. For me, many times, learning how to be a good musician is also learning about life in general. For example, recent thing I’ve learnt is to not mistake difficult bits with important ones. Sometimes we are focused too much on difficultly so that we emphasise them, we are making them important. In life is similar. Sometimes we think, if something costs you more effort it is more important. Many times the silent parts of life, like those when nothing is happening, are more important and meaningful than the busy ones. Which lessons you are taking about life while being with your instrument?
We learn while we practice. I look back on how I developed practice methods and it has also gone how I dealed with life I think. I’m doing more „stop and think and then play” rather than repeating all way long. I think I’ve done it to my life as well. For sure, for many years I just did everything that it came to me, I felt exhausted and make no progress. Recently, I’ve completely changed how I practice, my relationship to violin. I open up the case and I say „hello, we will have a little play”. I feel more efficient enjoying the process. I think I translate it to my life as well. You can’t really do everything, you have to focus on particular thing: individual, calm moments.
In the age of success we barely say about failures. Have you ever failed? Of course, we all failing, but maybe there is something you could share?
I definitely have a fear of failure and rejection. I think for a long time that fear was preventing me from go for things I didn’t think I could do. About year ago, I have applied for three things by video. I did it in this sort of very quick and very determined, competitive way, but with not much time for preparation. None of them worked out and they were all in one go. That made me freaked out, because I thought I couldn’t do everything. I was stressful for couple of months and made me questioning „what the hell am I doing?”. Of course when you have a failure or rejection you really think the worst about yourself from every angle, of course exagerating. The lesson I’ve learnt from it was that I’ve totally neglected my own learning in a run up to this. I got too excited to be ambitious. Ambition is a good thing but you need to have a steady mind. You have to go to every process with a plan. I have to put time, need to ground myself in it, not to feel like a failure.
This is so great what you said. It is so good that nowadays we share on social media positive vibes, but it also has a bad influence. You have impression that everyone is getting what they want, but we really don’t know how the backstage looks like. How many failures they made to achieve something, how many rejections they had.
Oh, yes, it’s good to talk about. You know what am I doing? If I am feeling low and I am on facebook seeing someone’s celebrating or showing off about something – in my tommy I feel „argh…I’m not doing the right thing… I should be doing more”. Then I am putting „like” and try to feel grateful for this person. Talking about success and also failures is important. I definitely talk less about failures. The truth is, that without rejection you never know how good the success feels. Black and white. If you never experienced rejection – you are also very fragile, very vulnerable.
Talking about success. What does it actually mean to you?
For me is being satisfy that I am fulfilling as many aspects of my personality as I can and doing it in a very nice, pleasant way for anyone else. Balancing it. It’s a difficult question as there are so many aspects of the life. If I was super successful in violin playing but miserable with my boyfriend – that’s not success. You want success in music and you are focusing on it and you become person who is not caring of your sister of boyfriend. Also not caring about myself! I need to remember about taking time off, sit down and do things for my personal happiness.
This is very much combined with decision making. Could you tell me which kind of questions you are asking yourself, before you ask for advise someone else?
First of all, I am not very good in asking anyone for advice. Full stop. I am very independent. When I am making decisions I am quite spontaneous and impatiente. Normally I go with the gut feeling. I trust my instinct. I am quite stubborn about my option of me so going to ask someone for advice is kind of… annoying [laugh]. When I was teenager and I had a boyfriend and I felt it’ was very serious, that we were always fighting. Some close friend of mine told me once: „ for me relationship is when you like the person that you are in that relationship, if you feel you are the best person you could be”. I thought: „ oh my god, I really do not like myself right now”. I think it’s totally true with your career as well. If you like the way you are, what you are doing, the way you treat the people, your approach to violin. It doesn’t actually matters what’s the label on it. That is for me the biggest success.
Have you ever struggled with expectations?
Yes, of course. Recently I have questions: Why you are leaving a steady job in UK for a contemporary contract in the country that you’ve never been to, you know nothing about. I don’t care. Well, I have a huge fear what people think about me. Like for example, I’m going to Oslo tomorrow and I’m wondering what are they going to think about me? You need to somehow accept that not everyone is going to like you, approving of what you are doing. That’s ok. It is easy to say, but it’s difficult to learn how to feel like that. I’m the person who is struggling with that, but trying to make all people to like me will exhaust me. People will always have different opinions. Actually I feel better saying that at loud [laugh].
Recently I experienced a big fear of „shoulds”. Especially in Poland I feel kind of pressure of following particular path as a musician. Being on freelance I am always facing the questions: „why you’re not having a proper job?”, „What are you doing for a living?”. I know that I am doing well, but at the same time I feel this breath on my neck, that maybe I’m not doing the right thing…
But you have a gut instinct, so you know what you like most!
I think it’s a matter of trust.
So you are choosing right now to trust your instinct.
Sometimes I feel I am too big dreamer.
Think about your life. I want to play violin until my late seventies. It’s a long time. The „shoulds” that I’ve experienced were: go to collage, do auditions, get a job. I’m not going to seat in the one orchestra for a fifty years! „You should be more stable” – I can only laugh about it. This is the time I can try everything. I know I will not always have the energy. When I want to do something different I look forward and I move toward. I love to teach, I’d like to start something on my own. I’m not sure what it is yet, but it is going to be big [laugh].
I am writing a book and the main character is kind of the symbol of these times. She is experiencing having all possibilities of life, that she can do whatever she wants. This actually stops her from doing.
Because she doesn’t know what to choose?
Exactly. Are you asking yourself is this your path? You can’t be all. What would be your advice to this character?
I find it myself difficult to believe that you don’t have this feeling in your tommy. The gut feeling. My advice would be to stop everything, go somewhere and listen to that. I listen very closely to my instincts. Sometimes when it’s too much you just need to have nothing. You can’t play the piece without frame of silences.
I like to mention the terminology from history of art: horror vacui – the fear of leaving empty spaces. The urge of feeling that you ar „doing” is so overwhelming.
My contribution to the Listening Project led by EUYO.
I am very happy for the invitation from EUYO to be the part of the Listening Project. Why do we need this?
1. First of all we need it as a musicians.
As you all know – artists are here on earth to share, to share what we do with the audience, we are here to inspire the people – there are plenty of discussions around the subject if the art exist without the recipient, however this not our matter now.
Before we go on stage, before we go to the rehearsal, there is the process of acquiring the skills. That demands focusing on yourself – how do you function, how YOUR sound is like, how to overcome technical trouble, which kind of interpretation we want to approach.etc..
It is so easy to get in a trap of being limited in your own head, to be focused only on yourself.
The real problem starts when we want to collaborate musically with the others. Playing in the group – no matter if it is duo or symphony orchestra – you need to open up to the others. It’s not enough to play your part correctly. It is not about YOU. It’s all about the chamber music so you really need to LISTEN.
Listening. What it exactly means?
I can tell you from my perspective:
First of all: don’t be too focused on yourself. Trust yourself that you can give more good things than you can screw up. If you done preparation before – it’s all what you have done – now it is the time to trust your abilities and make a step back from your own perspective.
2. Second. Being in the group doesn’t mean you need to hide. Listening doesn’t mean you need to loose your voice. It is the knowledge when you have your time to say, when somebody else is leading the conversation. My very good friend, cellist from my former quartet, once told me – we were three kids but my grandma always were giving only one sweet saying -” the time for the others will come”. Giving the space when somebody else has something to say, making suggestion of your own intention when you feel it’s your turn. This is so important.
3. Finally, if we hear sth it doesn’t mean we are able to listen to. Listening for me is hearing and trying to understand someone’s intentions. You don’t need to agree. It is just the respect and attention what the others want to suggest.
Be attentive: who has interesting motive so you could make a space for?
Can you hear your stand partner?
Can you hear the orchestra as a whole?
„Hmm…some section played similar motive in unexpected manner why not to respond in the same way?” That means: I hear you and I listen to you. SO I respect you!
Why I am happy that this subject is under discussion?
The thing is that we don’t need it only as a musicians. I find „the art of listening” as a perfect metaphor for living in the society. We live in a very destructive times when everybody wants talk at the same time and think its opinion is the only one right. Often don’t even make an effort to hear somebody else, I’m not even talking about listening! We forget that we are all creating one thing, which is in the constant process of becoming.
Is the theme of the cellos more RIGHT than the theme of violins? It is just different and we need to make space to it to be heard as well as somebody else is making space for us…
Once you experience the feeling of the unity in diversity – no matter if in the orchestra or in the society – you will enjoy it and feel much satisfaction in juggling within listening to yourself and listening to the others.
If you would like to explore more about this subject – follow EUYO website:
Resonance 